Dear Jo
I’ll try and take this more or less point by point. And you’ll notice I manage to do it without including any words not suitable for children, even though I’ve had those insults spat at me too.
You claim to have done a fair bit of research…well, at least sundry…but I’ll come back to that at the end…let’s see if you can read my entire 3000+ word response to your 3700 justification of transphobic rhetoric…FYI, mine includes quotes and links…It’s not a competition, but it is about accountability…
Let’s start with a look at Maya Forstater – the judge was asked to rule whether a philosophical belief that sex is determined by biology is protected by law. Judge Tayler ruled that it is not. A philosophical belief is not protected in law. In the UK, at least, gender reassignment is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. Gender is a protected characteristic in the USA, but not gender reassignment.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/4
Let me ask you this: if MF had made comments about homosexuals, would anyone have even batted an eyelid at the reprisal? Why exactly was this worthy of your defence then?
This links to my next issue….JKR: ”a cross-section of kind, empathetic and intelligent people, some of them working in fields dealing with gender dysphoria and trans people, who’re all deeply concerned about the way a socio-political concept is influencing politics, medical practice and safeguarding. They’re worried about the dangers to young people, gay people and about the erosion of women’s and girl’s rights. Above all, they’re worried about a climate of fear that serves nobody – least of all trans youth – well.”
Do you think that the same description could be applied to those who offer conversion therapy to ‘cure’ homosexuality? I’m pretty sure that most of the ‘professionals’ still prepared to offer it consider themselves kind, empathetic and one assumes that acquiring therapeutic certifications requires intelligence also. It is pretty well known that there are conversion therapies, including summer camps, in the US – but did you know that conversion therapy remains legal in the UK?
Want to know about camps and their impact on LGBTQ+ youth? Check out The Miseducation of Cameron Post – it’s pretty harrowing, and there are triggering issues and scenes throughout so be careful if you don’t have the emotional or mental health right now. Those offering therapy are bound by professional codes, and one assumes that most people expect them to be kind and empathetic in their nature and professional manner. So, we still have conversion therapy despite the fact that homosexuality is no longer considered a mental disorder, which it remained in the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual) until 1987. Let that sink in, please. It is only 33 years since homosexuality was in no way listed in the DSM as a mental disorder or disturbance.
JKR: “‘TERF’ is an acronym coined by trans activists, which stands for Trans-Exclusionary Radical Feminist. In practice, a huge and diverse cross-section of women are currently being called TERFs and the vast majority have never been radical feminists. Examples of so-called TERFs range from the mother of a gay child who was afraid their child wanted to transition to escape homophobic bullying, to a hitherto totally unfeminist older lady who’s vowed never to visit Marks & Spencer again because they’re allowing any man who says they identify as a woman into the women’s changing rooms. Ironically, radical feminists aren’t even trans-exclusionary – they include trans men in their feminism, because they were born women.”
Ok, for now let’s agree that trans exclusionary is descriptive…when certain groups scream that terf is a slur, is it because they take offence at being called radical feminists? It’s not a slur if it describes your views – we can switch to TEF if that makes you feel less attacked?
The mother of the gay child…you only have to take a look at the instances of homophobic and transphobic bullying to know that transitioning is likely to bring more risk of discrimination! You can find the full School Report from Stonewall here and a summary:
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/school-report-2017
I am a specialist youth worker, I work with LGBTQ+ young people. Whichever sexuality or gender they are, I can assure you that young people inform themselves, research, find communities and really think about and analyse everything, not one young person I have ever met is under the illusion that being trans might be easier than being gay.
The older lady in M&S…I just maybe saw a bear! This has so little gravitas…who was she? Was she a devout Christian? Was she homophobic? Does she panic if another woman in the changing room looks like she might be… be sure to whisper this bit theatrically…A LESBIAN! Cos y’know, when I was at school, I desperately hid my sexuality because ALL lesbians were known to be predatory…they might be perving on you in changing rooms after hockey practice, and they would certainly try to manipulate or coerce you into having sex with them, because that is what lesbians do. Except, it isn’t.
Lesbians were often excluded from feminist movements too. Gay women were unwelcome in women only spaces and feminist movements because it was felt that their lesbian issues were irrelevant to the majority of women and could hinder the winning of women’s rights. Sound familiar? This is a pretty apt quote, considering that BLM is at the forefront of many activists’ minds right now:
“I rarely talk about feminism in the singular. I talk about feminisms. And, even when I myself refused to identify with feminism, I realized that it was a certain kind of feminism . . . It was a feminism of those women who weren’t really concerned with equality for all women…” DR. ANGELA DAVIS, August 5th, 2019, Oral History Interview, National Museum of African American History and Culture*
And this:
“There is no contradiction between the struggle against racism, sexism, and all other-isms. All must be addressed simultaneously.”*
*Quotes here from this article: https://nmaahc.si.edu/explore/stories/collection/revolutionary-practice-black-feminisms
Other articles on lesbian feminist history:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/09612029200200006
https://www.jstor.org/stable/30114203?seq=2#metadata_info_tab_contents
https://www.thoughtco.com/lavender-menace-feminism-definition-3528970
So, the exclusion is only aimed trans women? Thanks Jo, that clears it all up! That’s not exclusionary then! Oh, wait…I don’t know who you are talking to, but the groups I have seen campaigning have told me I am dangerous for my work supporting any young gender-con-conforming or trans people who want to explore puberty blockers and eventual transition. I have been told I am a child abuser. Young people often have to wait until 18 to be told they can begin any medically supported transition – they could have had puberty blockers but they never got them, despite years of interviews and assessments and although it is not classed as a mental disorder, many end up referred to mental health services and are subjected to neurodevelopmental assessments; in fact many young trans people have thoughtful, incredibly insightful and mature, conversations with parents, waiting until they can have eggs harvested before they being testosterone in the hope they may one day have children that are biologically related to them. These young people don’t just wake up and fancy wearing trousers, they search their hearts and souls, they research and open dialogues and they STILL, even in the face of discrimination and incredibly high risks of physical violence, want to live as themselves. Those you support shout that LGBTQ+ youth don’t know what they are doing…but we can trust cis gender adolescents to know their gender, to enter into relationships, to choose their education pathway at the outset of year 9 (age 12-13 in the UK) and at 16 they can marry, enlist in armed forces…UK law also means that from age 13 a young person can seek medical advice and sexual health services without parental consent…so we afford less trust and understanding to trans youth than their cis peers. Please, explain that logic.
You say that cries to protect women only spaces don’t exclude trans men? I was shouted at that trans men hate women’s bodies, that they are persuading lesbians to hate women’s bodies…reality check, as a lesbian, and here I am confident I can speak for gay women on this: we love women’s bodies…that is kinda the point! They don’t want to accept or support trans men – they want to prevent them from transitioning or persuade them to reverse any transition they have already begun. That they are willing to include trans men in their spaces and dialogues on the basis of possessing a womb and ovaries is anathema to feminism: it bases feminism and therefore womanhood on the basic biology and, by implication, the reproductive capacity of any woman. NOT all women AFAB (assigned female at birth) have a womb, or ovaries, or even if they do, not all women menstruate or are fertile or are capable of carrying a baby to term, and some women do not wish to birth children at all, even if they can. Are you going to exclude women born without fully functioning biology or those who choose to have organs removed for health reasons or to prevent unwanted pregnancy? When a woman is no longer menstruating, is she no longer woman enough to be part of your conversation? Because by reducing it to ‘womb and ovaries’ or ‘menstruation’, that is how facile you make it sound. This is the very definition of misogyny – reducing womanhood to reproductive organs and capacity.
JKR: “Speaking as a biological woman, a lot of people in positions of power really need to grow a pair (which is doubtless literally possible, according to the kind of people who argue that clownfish prove humans aren’t a dimorphic species).”
You really took that tone? Seriously? You are going to ridicule those who oppose you? And you want which women to grow a pair? Last time I looked, Jo, that kind of language was as insulting as calling a grown woman babe or darlin’ or little lady. But you did your research, right? So…
Let’s forget the clownfish. Let’s talk instead about human hormones and the SRY genes. Consider this extract from the second of the links, looking at some of the science behind biologist Grace Pokela’s response to transphobic misinformation around biology:
- “5-alpha-reductase deficiency is a real (albeit rare) condition, in which young women grow a penis during puberty.
- Androgen insensitivity syndrome is an intersex condition in which a person who is genetically male is resistant to male hormones . As a result, the person has some or all of the physical traits of a woman, but the genetic makeup of a man.
- The SRY gene is involved in male sexual development—without it fetuses can be genetically male (with XY chromosomes) but have a female body. The same is true in females (with XX chromosomes), who can develop a male body without the SRY gene.
- XXY males are sterile, with small testes—while women with only one X chromosome (a condition called Turner syndrome) are infertile and don’t go through puberty. Males with two X chromosomes (called Klinefelter syndrome) are taller, with a higher risk of breast cancer and osteoporosis.
https://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/genetic-mechanisms-of-sex-determination-314/
Just because we don’t know if this biology is at play in trans people, doesn’t mean it isn’t. I’m not sure there is a lesbian gene either, but you don’t seem to think that my capacity for procreation means that I biologically predetermined to be heterosexual…People shout about biological determinism in gender/sex all the time, but rarely do they have any science to back it up. There are no conclusive long-term studies regarding transgenderism as yet. However, there is emerging, ongoing, research that you may wish to read:
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01237-z
And this:
“Dr Bakker says, “Although more research is needed, we now have evidence that sexual differentiation of the brain differs in young people with GD, as they show functional brain characteristics that are typical of their desired gender.” ”
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm
As to your 5 reasons:
- Trans women are women. Many have also been subject to abuse, both prior to and since transitioning. MS – if biology affects the symptoms and impact of the disease, then there is a case to ensure that trans people are given specific consideration, rather than assuming that examining their circumstances reduces effective research. Currently, one assumes that research is fixed by the perceived biological binary, and therefore trans people are more at risk of receiving less appropriate treatment than are the majority affected and whom will be the focus of current research. See above for why legal definitions of sex don’t cover all bases – biology is not that simple.
- I’ve heard this before…LGBTQ+ inclusive education might ‘confuse’ our children. BS. This is facile in the extreme. I grew up with section 28 recently in place, I had no language or frame of reference for safely exploring or discussing my sexuality, not one lesson talked about anything other than heterosexual experience. There were virtually no positive role models – only those ridiculed or reviled, and gay or lesbian were dirty words whispered with disgust. Or, just as damaging, lesbians were denigrated as ‘lipstick lesbians’ if they remained feminine in presentation, and ‘butch’ was considered a ‘manly’ woman and a joke too. If you are concerned about education, then you should champion the open, frank inclusion of ALL LGBTQ+ sexualities and genders – that way you can ensure that generations learn that homophobia and transphobia are as abhorrent as racism and ableism, and you can be sure that young people who may be trans are getting to make informed and consensual choices about how they feel to ensure transition is about being who they are as opposed to being confused about what they feel and know themselves to be. Education is power.
- Freedom of speech? So you think that hate speech and discrimination are ok on a huge public platform then? Do you support Trump’s statements that Mexicans are rapists as free speech? Do you think it’s ok that anti-immmigration groups in the UK rant about Muslim gangs of sexually predatory groomers but fail to rage against the white British gangs doing the same thing? Do you think that we should give credence to the views of neo-Nazis? Once upon a time, ‘criticism’ of other ethnic groups, races and disabled people were just free speech too. Shall we allow that to be once more the case in the name of freedom of speech?
- Detransition is extremely rare.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6212091/
Refer to point 2 – if you are genuinely concerned that some young people consider transition in order to avoid homophobic bullying, LGBTQ+ inclusive education is even more vital: 1) it will ensure they are given information about the higher instances of transphobic bullying and violence against trans people; 2) it will educate and promote understanding on sexuality so that all young people learn about and respect gay and lesbian, bisexual and other sexualities, thus reducing bullying and protecting the very people you apparently care about much more effectively.
Puberty blockers are considered reversible treatment, allowing a young person to avoid potentially more extreme gender dysphoria (GD) as secondary sexual characteristics become more pronounced in adolescence. This will also afford them time to ‘grow out’ of their GD if they are going to do so.
Your older friend…I’m so glad that she is happy. Her process was lengthy and rigorous? It remains so for non-reversible changes. Young people spend years living with bodies that do not feel like their own, committed to living as the gender they know they are and mostly (for there are always exceptions in the private medical sphere) waiting for years to get seen by gender identity specialists and then years more prior to any medical transition whilst they are interviewed, assessed and so on. Young trans people (under 18) in the UK will at best be on puberty blockers. That they live openly as the gender they are, rather than that assigned at birth, is perhaps the largest difference: education, media visibility and online communities etc have given them the courage to begin living openly and honestly long before they have access to fully or partially irreversible treatment options.
The mythical ‘sexual predator in a dress’…Come on! You’ve done your research, Jo. So you know that 1) a violent sexual predator was not going to wait for the law to make his abuse easier – there will always be violent sexual abusers, but self ID for gender is not going to increase their number. There is literally no evidence for this theory – it was a campaign fabricated by those with an anti-trans women stance.
“We, the undersigned sexual assault and domestic violence organizations, oppose antitransgender initiatives. These initiatives utilize and perpetuate the myth that protecting transgender people’s access to restrooms and locker rooms endangers the safety or privacy of others. As organizations that care about reducing assault and violence, we favor laws and policies that protect transgender people from discrimination, including in accessing facilities that match the gender they live every day.”
You can see the undersigned organisations here:
These kind of arguments are used to ‘recruit’ women, including lesbians, to gender critical or tans exclusionary groups and to mislead the public, fuelling discrimination and hate:
Instances of trans women in prison violently or sexually assaulting other inmates in a women’s prison are extremely rare, and a result of a failure of hugely imperfect justice and custody systems. This is reflected in the main UK story used to fuel the notion that men are just waiting for self-ID before committing their heinous crimes, that of Karen White, who began transition whilst in prison:
“White has previous convictions for indecent assault, indecent exposure and gross indecency involving children, animal cruelty and dishonesty. The Ministry of Justice has apologised for moving her to the women’s prison, saying that her previous offending history had not been taken into account. Prosecutor Chris Dunn described White as an “alleged transgender female” who has used her “transgender persona to put herself in contact with vulnerable persons” whom she could then abuse. “The prosecution say that because there is smattering of evidence in this case that the defendants approach to transition has been less than committed,” he added.” (emphasis added – this is an admission that duty of care was neglected).
- I am genuinely sorry for any trauma you have experienced, and I understand why you would be triggered by certain situations. Sadly, so many of us have those experiences in our past or present. Trans people included.
But here is where true empathy comes into play. You say that you recognise that trans women have a right to feel safe and that their lives matter. Then stand with them. Educate yourself about them.
On the subject of those accused of being ‘terf’ being doxxed – this is happening to huge number of trans activists, in a frighteningly coordinated attack in many cases. Both sides are at fault here. You are not alone in being called names and threatened with violence. It is not acceptable in either direction, and you’re in a glass house throwing stones with that argument.
Much of this point 5 is essentially reprise of what you had already written, and I’ve addressed that above.
At a time when proposed reforms set out and promoted by Liz Truss are being largely overshadowed by the current pandemic, preventing true scrutiny and dialogue, it is alarming to see such a public figure making statements that are fuzzily referred to as researched. There is minimal fact in your statement, indeed you do not even provide a reference for figures quoted. You wrote 3700 words with not a single source of evidence for any of your points – that’s shoddy at best, lazy whichever way you look at it and intentionally neglectful at best. You say you have researched for your crime novels…so you must know those sources, ready for acknowledgements where appropriate and bookmarked in case you need to revisit them? You have a very large and very public platform, where is your accountability?
You have a responsibility, when you are so publicly known and so widely heard, to demonstrate that you really have looked at both sides of the debate. Feminist and women’s group resources that have no evidence base are not good enough. I challenge you to find the evidence that supports the view that violence against AFAB women has increased or is likely to do so as a result of self ID for trans women.
I challenge you to publish links or other sources for the “sundry books, blogs and articles by trans people, gender specialists, intersex people, psychologists, safeguarding experts, social workers and doctors, and followed the discourse online and in traditional media” that you base your writing on.
If you’re going to enter this debate meaningfully, I disrespectfully suggest that you do some actual research and prove it.
Intersectional Femme 